This week, Maggie is chatting with Eva Jannotta, a women's thought leadership consultant. In this episode, they talk about how women can be more confident about making decisions, while also avoiding decision fatigue.
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Connect with Eva on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evajannotta/
Eva Jannotta helps bold women thought leaders stand out online. She works with North America’s most recognized women leaders on thought leadership, marketing and social media strategy to help more women be heard, sought-after and hired. Clients have included women entrepreneurs mentor Ali Brown, diversity and inclusion consultant Stacey Gordon, women’s leadership speaker Selena Rezvani and more. Her Big Hairy Audacious Goal is to end gender and racial discrimination. Eva grew up in Silver Spring, Maryland and today she lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her partner.
To join the Money Circle Community, visit www.maggiegermano.com/moneycircle.
To learn more about Maggie and her coaching and speaking services, visit www.maggiegermano.com.
Maggie Germano 0:07
Thanks for listening to the money circle Podcast. I am your host, Maggie Germano and I’m a financial coach for women. I’m passionate about helping women improve their relationship with money so that they can take better control of their futures. Part of that journey is making personal finance education more accessible and less judgmental, which is why this podcast exists. Each week we’ll discuss a new financial topic to help you explore how you can make a difference in your own financial life or in society as a whole. If you’re interested in diving deeper into issues like income inequality, debt or money, shame, check out my new money circle community. In this safe feminist space women gathered to talk about money without fear of being judged or shamed. We will break down shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggiegermano.com/moneycircle to learn more and to join the community today. I can’t wait to see you there.
Hey there, and thanks for listening. I’m your host Maggie Germano. And this week, I’m chatting with Eva Jannotta, who is a women’s thought leadership consultant. In this episode, we talk about how women can be more confident about making decisions while also avoiding decision fatigue. If you get overwhelmed by the idea of making the right decision in any area of your life, but specifically in your finances, and you want to feel more decisive, this episode is for you. Enjoy.
Alright, welcome, Eva. Thanks so much for being here today.
Eva Jannotta 1:48
Hey, Maggie, thanks for having me
Maggie Germano 1:50
of course. So before we dive in to this week’s topic, why don’t you just take a minute and tell listeners who you are and what you do?
Eva Jannotta 1:58
Sure. So I help women leaders, I like to say bold women leaders, amplify our influence and expand our wealth and power through thought leadership. So to unpack that thought leadership can be article writing, it can be podcast, it could be videos, whatever it the medium is, it’s taking what’s between your ears, what you know, from your experience, your learning your insights, taking that and using that to help others, make an impact, make progress, draw certain conclusions, make decisions, etc. And I am really invested in this work. And I think it’s super important because you know, we have a many century many millennia legacy of women’s voices being suppressed. And so now that that is a little bit less so compared to generations past, I think it’s our responsibility and our privilege to fill that void, where there hasn’t been women’s voices historically, with our experience, our insights, our knowledge, and tried to change representation at all levels of leadership and power.
Maggie Germano 3:11
I love that. That’s fantastic. And how did you find yourself in this work?
Eva Jannotta 3:17
Well, I went did my way here in a nonlinear fashion, as most of us do. And I my background is in marketing. Well, actually, my education background is in Gender and Women’s Studies. So there’s a clear connection there. But my professional background is in marketing. And marketing came really naturally to me, I think there’s a lot of great things about it, it’s a really powerful tool. But in order to need to use a tool, you have to be making something you have to be creating something to use the tool for. And what lights me up the most is this creation process with women leaders. So that’s how I went from marketing into kind of like, before you need marketing, What are you making? What’s your legacy work? What’s your intellectual property? What’s your body of work?
Maggie Germano 4:06
That’s really interesting. And I’m sure that a lot of people need help kind of narrowing in on that and getting really specific in order to feel more confident and focused on what they’re doing.
Eva Jannotta 4:20
Man, you said all the words, narrow focus, confident, clear, yes. All of the above. Yep.
Maggie Germano 4:27
Those are things I know that I need more of in my life. So I definitely understand why the work that you’re doing would be so important. So how do you you know, when we initially talked about this interview, and kind of, you know, flushed out a little bit around what we wanted to talk about today, we talked about, like building up confidence related to making decisions in our lives. So how do you work with women to kind of help them feel more confident about the decisions that they’re actually making? in their lives and their careers and that sort of thing.
Eva Jannotta 5:03
Yeah. So when you and I were talking Maggie, like, decision fatigue was something that we both were like, yes, let’s discuss that. And that’s something that comes up a lot with my clients. And probably everyone listening can relate to that just like otter, empty, exhausted, like, you just want to lay on the floor feeling when you have so many decisions that you feel like you need to make. And, you know, we live in an era where like, there are more decisions and more information available to us than ever before. And so there’s we’re just constantly bombarded. I mean, anytime you look at the Internet, you’re just bombarded with unsolicited advice, free advice, ideas, shoulds things you should be doing 10 ways to exit you can why all of that can, I mean, really, inevitably lead to complete overwhelm when it comes to decision making, whether that’s for your family, for yourself care for your career for your thought leadership. So, I mean, this is a really complex issue, right, Maggie, like, we could go pretty deep in a couple of different directions. But what comes up for me a lot with my clients, and one of the reasons that they seek me out to work with me is to have like a decision making partner and an expert who can make decisions or guide your decisions about something that’s not your area of expertise. And just so that you can just get that decision off of your plate by basically outsourcing it to an expert slash, like ideal partner, who knows you and your goals really well. Does that answer your question?
Maggie Germano 6:45
Yeah, definitely. That’s really interesting. And, and I totally relate to the decision fatigue, I feel like every single day, no matter who you are, you have to make a million decisions. But then if you’re a leader in in some kind of realm, or a business owner, or a parent, or anybody, where you just like to make so many decisions, and your brain just feels like it’s going to explode.
Eva Jannotta 7:10
Yes. Yeah. And I think about you know, have you heard that phrase, Maggie? Beyonce only has 24 hours in a day or something?
Maggie Germano 7:20
Yes, that we have the same 24 hours as Beyonce has. Yes, I have seen that.
Eva Jannotta 7:25
That one. That’s not true. Okay. It’s really hurtful and harmful to say that because what Beyonce has is a enormous team of support of people who are making decisions for her. I’m sure she has her finger on all of the most important and high impact decisions. For sure. It’s not like she partnered with peloton like someone else chose that for her right? Like she was part of that decision making process. assuredly. But many things that fall under the lower impact categories. She has people doing that work for her. And so it’s really challenging to compare ourselves to others who are more successful who, especially with social media might convey themselves as a solo entrepreneur, or as a career, you know, person in their career who’s kind of gone at it gone it alone, or what have you. And we can’t see behind their latest Instagram story, all of the support they have.
Maggie Germano 8:23
And yeah, support when it comes to making those decisions to get them to that point, right, and then actually executing once you’ve made the decision. So like Beyonce, she’s like a billionaire. So she can pay someone to do all of her meal planning, all of her grocery shopping, all of that prep all of the cooking app, like literally feeding her children caring for her children, if she needs that. I you know, I’m sure she has a stylist who’s like helping her choose her wardrobe for different days and events and things like that. So yeah, whenever I see that, quote, I always get very frustrated, because I’m like, No, she’s a billionaire. She has so much staff, it is not the same as someone who needs to take drive their kids to school, you know, when school is in person again, and then go to work, and then worry about daycare, and then worry about dinner and then worry about cleaning and all that it’s just absolutely not the same.
Eva Jannotta 9:17
Right. And you know, studies have shown that women tend to have a greater burden on ourselves when it comes to decision making for our families or for our, our health and our partners health or for like, gift giving and socializing. And so there’s even more of a, a load on us if that’s the dynamic we’re in to make a lot, a lot A lot of decisions.
Maggie Germano 9:40
I totally agree. And so to kind of tie this conversation into the money circle, podcast theme and a lot of the work that I do related to money, how does this competence related to decisions and also decision fatigue, kind of extend to financial decisions? How have you You’ve seen that?
Eva Jannotta 10:01
Well, that’s a really good question. And I actually want to kind of ask it back to you after I answer. But, you know, one area where I’ve noticed myself having a lot of decision fatigue is with spending, and particularly with investing in myself. And, you know, it’s, I’ve had a lot of resistance to investing in myself, which when I compare it to the years I spent in school and in university is a little strange to suddenly not want to invest in my own learning, and my own development, but it feels a little different now, for some reason. And so what I find and what I think a lot of my clients face is, is this investment worth it? How do I assess if it’s worth it? How do I manage my competing priorities to decide what to spend money on? You know, there’s a lot of a lot of mindset stuff that comes in here, there’s, you know, one mindset thing that I noticed in myself and in others is, I can’t afford that, versus it’s not a priority for me to afford that. And the other thing when it comes to, you know, making financial decisions with confidence, I mean, I think that you can apply a lot of the same decision making techniques that I use on myself and on my clients for our thought leadership or our marketing to financial decisions, which might include outsourcing as many as you can, automating as many as you can. And just letting go of some, that’s huge, I think. Giving yourself time to decide I sometimes think we feel rushed to like, commit to this like coaching package and the next week or not. And sometimes I think the way our minds work, we need time to let this financial investment opportunity settle, to let ourselves maybe get used to the idea. They get over, see how it feels with our intuition. And then we might be ready to make a decision a couple weeks later, very organically, rather than trying to force a decision right away.
Maggie Germano 12:15
Yeah, I think that’s a really important piece. Because I mean, we see this all the time with when there’s like some kind of launch from right program, or a coach or whatever it might be. And it’s like, oh, my God, look it in the next 48 hours, and you’ll get this massive discount, but you like are gonna miss it. And then they’re emailing you every five hours in order to get you to do and you’re just like, Oh, my God, I don’t know if it’s right. For me, and then and then you know, if you do decide to do it, and then you’ll regret it, because maybe you didn’t have the money really at the moment? Or maybe you pass on it because you’re worried about money. And then you wonder if if you made a mistake and missed out on it. And yeah, I think that that frantic immediacy related to making decisions like that can be really stressful. And, yeah, just just the way that our culture is now with how fast everything needs to be done and decided, we don’t really stop to kind of think and let things sink in and see how it feels. And it’s funny with my clients, and they’ll ask me a question like, Oh, well, like, should I use my money for this? Or should I have a goal for this? And I’m like, Well, how does it feel when you think about doing that? or making that decision versus this decision? And they’re like, Oh, I don’t know. You don’t have to know right now. It’s not something. Many things are not instant decisions that need to be made. Like we can kind of let things marinate. And I think I think it’s easy to forget that.
Eva Jannotta 13:45
That’s such a good point, Maggie. And also that it reminds me that I think we’re not really taught or it’s not always modeled to us in the greater culture, what the right decision for us feels like, emotionally and physically. And that’s, I think, a relationship you can cultivate with yourself, or even like almost like a muscle you can strengthen. And you’re kind of coaching helps with that of like, just taking the time to ask, how does that decision feel? And when the answer is, I don’t know. That could mean you need a little more time. But it could also mean that you’re out of practice with what a feeling of an aligned decision is for you. And I mean, I think that’s just like an ongoing project for all of us, probably.
Maggie Germano 14:30
Yeah. And it’s funny, and I want to talk a little bit more about that, actually, because something that I used to Well, I think I still struggle with this, but I definitely struggled with it more in the in previous years, was that if I was afraid of something, that to me meant that it was the wrong decision, and that I shouldn’t do it because I always thought like, oh, no fear is bad. I shouldn’t write it. And if I am afraid that means it’s wrong or I’m not ready or I don’t want it The more that I’ve like, grown up and started to understand that like, fear is not something you just don’t have anymore. Fear is something you have to learn how to cope with. And sometimes fear signals something that you really want. That was hard for me to learn. And so that was that’s, that’s one of those things of like unlearning the the certain assumptions you have about like what’s right or what feels right and how things feel. So is that something you work on with your clients of like how to tune into how things feel and how they can tell when something is right for them when they’re making a decision?
Eva Jannotta 15:41
Yeah, I would say we talk about that not explicitly, but implicitly, in that I will often as a thought leadership, strategist and advisor, I will often ask, well, like, what do you think like, what, what gets you most excited, and do so I encourage them to tune into the energy of the idea that we’re working on, or I’m sensitive to that kind of reaction and people so sometimes I can see their face light up, or I can see them kind of get tense about something. And so we can we can unpack that further. But you know, I wanted to go back to something you just shared. Maggie, I think the point you made about fear is super, super good. And like, learning what the difference between like a no, this is a wrong fit, or Yes, this is the right fit, like those can feel similar if they’re challenging your comfort zone. And an example that comes to mind for me is I when I hired my first business coach, she gave me one of those offers, we were talking about where it was like a fast action bonus, if you decided by x date, you got a discount. And that was a time when I knew it was the right decision. And I was scared. And so having that deadline to get a discount really kicked me in the butt to like, make that decision. But there have been other situations that I’ve been in and listeners can probably relate where there’s kind of this like carrot dangling tactic, or the scare tactic or urgency tactic. And it makes you feel bad, maybe some shame, maybe a lot of uncertainty, maybe a lot of fear. Not because you’re scared and you want to do it, but you’re scared of missing out and you feel like there’s something wrong with you, because you’re not quite sure you’re ready for it. Those can feel similar, but they are different. And I think it’s so important for us making financial decisions, making thought leadership decisions, career decisions, to tune into those the difference between those feelings.
Maggie Germano 17:42
Yeah, and like, and I’m sure especially if we’re not attuned to our own feelings, or if we’re out of practice, like you said, it can be hard to do that. But I think I mean, something that I have my clients do is like, you know, what are the pros and cons of like this decision versus this decision? Or, you know, what happens if you don’t do this? Or if you do do this, and something my my therapist has been saying to me recently is like, okay, so if this happens, so what it’s been, it’s like such a, literally a two word question. But it’s like, been a really life changing question of like, making yourself think of the consequences and then be like, hmm, wait, they’re not nearly as bad as I thought they might be if it happens, or doesn’t happen? Or maybe you do ask yourself that question. And it’s like, oh, my God, if I don’t do this, all of these really important things will happen or not happen? And even just that small question can answer and help you figure out what it is you want to do, because you can see if there is urgency there versus not like, you know, having fake urgency.
Eva Jannotta 18:57
That’s a good one, like any two word question you can put in your pocket to like, check in with yourself when you’re maybe cycling, you know, treading water a little bit on a decision. And that reminds me, I wanted to ask you, Maggie, like, we’re talking about decision fatigue, we’re talking about building confidence to make decisions that are right for you. What has your experience been with your clients when it comes to those financial questions or decisions or investments?
Maggie Germano 19:22
Yeah, so I mean, it definitely varies by client and like, what they’re kind of going through and what their options really are. But the competence piece and I was just working with a client yesterday where we were working on this a lot during the session, where I think it’s really important to help them point out areas of their life where they’ve been very confident and they’ve been very competent, and that they have felt like they deserved what they got in other areas. Because a lot of the people that work with me, they have lack of confidence, really To money, or they feel like they’re bad with money, whatever that means. And or maybe they’ve been told that they’re not good with money. And so they really internalize that. And so they feel like it’s impossible to have a different sense of themselves. And so therefore, it’s impossible to do different actions and make things be different moving forward. But then when I start asking, like, well, what are some other areas in your life where you have always felt really confident, or you did feel like you were capable of making the right decisions without someone else telling you what you should do? Or even that, like, you certainly deserved that thing that you got. And then it wasn’t like you just Yukon someone and giving it to us. And having people be able to like, walk through different areas of their life, whether it’s career, so with this particular client, she’s been incredibly successful in her career, she knows that she deserves the jobs that she’s had and the opportunities that she’s had. And so while she’s walking through that, I could then pull specific examples that she said to say, like, well, then why, you know, why wouldn’t you then be deserving of the compensation from this job that you know, that you deserve? Or why wouldn’t you be deserving of like, being able to pay off your debt or whatever it might be? and other questions that I asked are like, well, how can you apply the confidence you brought to this scenario to your financial scenario just like that, because then you’re generating proof to yourself that you’re, I suppose things? That’s a big part of it related to confidence?
Eva Jannotta 21:45
Yeah, that’s a great point, Maggie. Because confidence, like to an extent is a transferable skill set, or at least a buildable skill set. If you build it in one area, then you have proof, like you said that you can build it in another. And just like remembering and connecting to that feeling of confidence in school, athletics, career, whatever your situation is, you can tune into that feeling and start practicing that feeling and that experience in a new area.
Maggie Germano 22:12
Yeah, exactly. And then related to just making decisions related to money, I often I really like people to get in more in tuned with, like, what their values are and what their goals are. Because I am a big believer that like just being better with money for the sake of being good with money, like, yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s not motivating. It’s not, you’re not going to like stick to a budget, because someone told you you should, even if it’s someone you hired like me. And so it needs to be about like, what you care about most, what the achievements are, that you’re looking for what kind of life you want to live, so that if you do have to sacrifice something in the meantime, that it’s for a reason, it’s for a bigger thing that you’ve chosen, instead of it being because like Dave Ramsey, or I told you that you need to suffer. So that’s a big part of it, too.
Eva Jannotta 23:11
That’s a great point for making other types of decisions to link it with when you’re clear on your values. And I am, frankly, kind of sick of the goals personally. But if you’re clear on your values, and you have a vision for yourself, for certain experiences you want to have or achievements you want to accomplish, then it it’s a helpful lens through which to look at, like does this decision to contribute to my vision, my impact, whatever. And if it doesn’t, then maybe you don’t even have to make the decision, you know, just like, kick it off your plate. I think that we have more say over the decisions we make than we realize. And one like super simple example that works for me is I have very few clothes, I just don’t spend a lot of decision making power or time or energy deciding what to wear because I only have a few shirts. And it’s just easy. And that’s not related to my vision, per se, but it’s an example or an area where I’ve just made the decision making super easy. So I have more energy to decide about things related to my business, to my family life to my travel plans, etc.
Maggie Germano 24:20
Yeah, I really like that example. And I think that even just that example, and has been more common, I think of like having a capsule wardrobe or right. You know, Steve Jobs only had one outfit. And that’s why because he knew what he was wearing every single day. And I part of me yearns for that too. Because like, I don’t really care that much about my clothes. I work from home, even when we’re not in a pandemic. And so like, I’m not that worried about what I’m wearing. And so yeah, just like having it be very simple can be really helpful. And I think related to that. That’s one of the reasons I tell my clients and everybody really like automate as much as you can with your money, so that you already know it’s happening. And like the responsible things that need to happen are happening without you thinking about them, because you set it up that way. And then you don’t have to worry about it again. And then every other financial decision that needs to be made, that’s the only thing you really need to think about. Because Yeah, all of the other stuffs taken care of, like I just told a different client the other day, like, if you know that all your bills are getting paid, if you know that your savings is being automated, you can do whatever you want with the money that’s leftover, and you don’t have to worry about it. And that I think that’s freeing for a lot of people.
Eva Jannotta 25:38
It sounds freeing to me, like, that’s something that I haven’t yet automated is the savings. And you’re reminding me that I want to because yeah, just not like the more you cannot have to think about it, the more I think more energized and free you’ll feel overall and specifically when it comes to the decisions that are most important to you.
Maggie Germano 25:59
Yeah, and then you don’t have you, you’re not giving yourself an opportunity to feel bad about yourself, because you didn’t say things that you’re you didn’t put money in retirement or whatever it’s like, I already know this is happening because I set it up. And I never have to think about it again, or you know, whether it’s through your 401k at work or something you’ve set up through your bank, whatever it might be like, you not only are making sure that it’s happening, and you don’t have to worry about it. But you also are, you can show yourself like I am doing the things that are going to protect me in the future or that are more responsible. And you don’t have to get frustrated with yourself when you forget, because we’re all human and we dropped the ball.
Eva Jannotta 26:42
Yeah, and you know, Maggie, this is making me think of another aspect of decision making that I think can lead to decision fatigue. And just like having some bad feels about your decision, is I think that we maybe women, overall, I mean, I’m generalizing there, but my experience is that we can tend to want to discuss our decisions. Maybe we’re verbal processors, and that’s part of how we come to conclusions. And that’s great. But what I’ve noticed for myself, and I think this happens with my clients too, is use when you discuss your decisions, a lot of people you open yourself up to input from them that you wouldn’t otherwise agree with, but because maybe they’re close to you, you feel influenced by it. And kind of being what I would call maybe like more public with your decisions can can really invite some second guessing into your psyche. And so I am an advocate for like decision making privacy. And like, you know, whether it’s, you just don’t share certain decisions that you make, or you break the habit of needing to analyze all your decisions with other people. I used to find that I would get so I kind of felt like I was being overtaken by other people’s opinions, when I would share what I was trying to decide with them. And it made it harder for me to connect with that feeling in myself of what I wanted to do. And I don’t hear that talked about very often. But I think it’s really important.
Maggie Germano 28:15
Yeah, that is so funny. Because I’ve, I’ve, like thought about that, but not put that much thought into it. And but I’ve definitely noticed it for myself where it’s like, I’ll think I’ve made a decision. And then I’ll talk to one more person. And of course, they have a different opinion, right? It’s like, well, I trust this person. But like, that’s completely different. So then I’m like questioning what I had already did, and then you’re thrown into the just the same issue you were having before anyway, where there’s just like, too many potential options, too many opinions. And it makes it really hard to dial into what actually makes sense for you. So but I do know like I also need to at least talk things out a little bit with people so how do you recommend finding like a balance for that of like getting support and being able to kind of work through things yourself but also not getting too much outside input that it then paralyzes you have no more
Eva Jannotta 29:13
I think it starts I should say in my experience, it starts with first just noticing like be trying to be really a student of my own feelings. And noticing Oh, when I’ve talked to like this family member, I second guess myself really easily. When I talk to this friend, I can kind of let her opinions like just roll right off me. And so noticing who has tends to have more of an influence on you like their opinions have a hold of greater weight for you. And then so that’s one way to be a student of your own feelings and the other is like certain decisions you might feel really comfortable sharing like I don’t know trips you plan to take like once it’s easy to travel again, or but other decisions like investing money in certain things, making certain choices about your family. Those who might not feel as comfortable sharing. And so I think becoming aware of those differences. And then I’m like you, Maggie, I’m a usually a verbal processor. So I need to at least talk it over with somebody. And I have just a few, because like, personal trusted advisors, you know, like my partner, my sister, those are kind of the usual suspects for me. And I feel really safe in our relationship, because they’ve shown me over time, that they’re not going to give me unsolicited advice, they’re not going to second guess my opinions to me, they’re not going to voice their own opinions. They’re very good listeners. And so I think being noticing who in your life you trust, and is a really good listener, because I mean, a really skilled listener, even if they’re an opinionated person won’t offer you their opinion. And a lot of people feel comfortable offering you their opinion. And so being conscious of who you’re choosing to confide in, and what their likely responses.
Maggie Germano 30:58
Yeah, I really like that. And I feel like that can be another place where, like, a coach could come in really handy. Because I know, with my own coaching training, one of one of the big pieces of it is like listening, and then asking more questions. Yeah, and not giving an opinion and just like trying to help them figure out where they want to end up by asking questions. And so like, yeah, if there’s, if it’s an issue that like, no one, you know, personally will be able to be totally neutral about like seeking out someone else who’s a third party, and you know, someone like a coach or therapist or something like that can be really helpful in terms of like, just getting get trying to, like you said, process verbally without getting right unsolicited advice or kind of muddying up your own thoughts with someone else’s opinions.
Eva Jannotta 31:55
Exactly. I think that Yeah, a coach or a therapist is a great example of like a source for you. And then that reminded me of one more thing when it comes to like decision making privacy, which is decision making backlash. And that’s something that I’ve noticed will often happen after I’ve made a decision. Especially if it’s a bold one, or a new one, or one that tests my comfort zones, is I’ll experience backlash, either from other people who might find out about it, or, and more difficultly from myself, which is that I will. But like I make a bold decision. This happened last year when I invested in a messaging intensive with a coach. And I went to the landing page, and I was so like, so jazzed, I just immediately signed up, paid the deposit, like was thrilled. And then after I did that, I read the landing page more closely. And I realized that I didn’t fit all the criteria on the landing page that they shared for their ideal client. And I second guessed myself, like crazy, I immediately went down this dark rabbit hole of like, Oh, my God, I acted too soon, I’m not ready for this, I should wait until XYZ is in place. And I recognized after the fact that those were, that was me, like smashing my head into some limiting beliefs. But what it felt like is I’ve made this decision, and I immediately felt like garbage. And so it felt like you were saying earlier, Maggie with fear, like it felt like, Oh, I did something wrong. But what I recognized now is when I make those kinds of decisions, I can expect to second guess myself after the fact. That’s just sort of how like, our brains try to keep us safe. So whether that’s the kind of backlash I just described from yourself, or you know, someone who you didn’t discuss your decision with still finds out about it and shares their opinion with you. I think being prepared to get some backlash helps us handle that backlash. Well, and not let us let it like, throw us off the rails.
Maggie Germano 34:01
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Because even if something’s a right decision, it doesn’t mean there won’t be backlash. So yes. What do you what kind of tips do you recommend to like prepare for that, so that you don’t end up spiraling emotionally afterwards?
Eva Jannotta 34:19
Yeah, I think that, I mean, for me, some emotional spiral is just what I can expect of myself. And I’ve just learned that. But before I go into a bowl decision, kind of reminding myself this might happen. And it doesn’t mean you did anything wrong or bad. And then when it does happen, I’m like, aha, I recognize you friend, I see what you’re doing here. And I let the feelings move through me but I they don’t catch me off guard. So that tip is just like to just remind yourself to expect this kind of backlash. And I would say the same can be true for others. I mean, I often don’t share my certain decisions before or after the fact because I don’t want to invite the backlash and have to talk it out with somebody. But sometimes when they find out what I try to do is be just pretty neutral and non committal when they share their opinion with me. Like, maybe I’ll say, like, yeah, that’s a that’s a fair point. I see what you’re getting out there. Period.
Maggie Germano 35:23
Yeah, I like that. Because then you don’t have to defend yourself either. And that’s something I’ve been thinking about recently, where like, as we’re recording this, I’m, I’m nine months pregnant. And so a lot of conversations and decisions are being made between me and my husband. And a lot of some of them are things that, you know, we think maybe like, family wouldn’t be very happy with or for breaking with certain traditions and making other like big decisions. And we know that it’s right for us. And we’ve had a lot spent a lot of time discussing with each other, and we just, like, know that these decisions are right. But we also know that like, some other people might not actually feel the same way. And one of the things that I’ve the advice that I’ve given my husband cuz like I can, of course, give very good advice. Someone else doing, like talking to a family member and not me doing it?
Eva Jannotta 36:21
Maggie Germano 36:22
Um, but I’ll be like, you know, when that comes up, or when you tell them that, like, just say it matter of factly, like, this is what we’re doing, period, or this is what we’re doing. Because this is we know, we think it’s the best decision for our family period. And not giving the opportunity to have someone like necessarily argue with you or not making it feel like you’re preemptively defending yourself, and therefore possibly making it sound like a weak argument that someone can start poking at. And, and I think that helps keep more of the control on the person’s side where they’re making the decision, where it’s, you’re giving less opportunity for the other person to start arguing with you about it or telling you you’re making the wrong decision. And I think that’s similar to what you were just saying about like, yes, thank you for that, I can see how you think that.
Eva Jannotta 37:16
Yeah, you make such a good point about just like not playing the defensiveness game. And also what you’re talking about here, it sounds to me like really good boundaries of just like, internally your boundary of like, I know that I have a boundary where I don’t discuss this with so and so. And also the boundary of like, not choosing to argue with them, or not choosing to kind of play the game that they’re trying to play if they start to question you. And I’ll never forget, my partner and I before we got married saw a couple’s like, Coach kind of, and it was really, really interesting and really good for our relationship. And one of the questions we were discussing, as she was saying, you know, oh, like if you to have children, you know, how are you going to negotiate your parenting decisions with your children with what your own parents think, or other relatives think? And we were talking about that. And she said, You know, there’s one thing I know for sure. And I thought she was going to like a site of scientific study or something. But what she said is, what you and your partner decide to do with your children is no one else’s business. And for some reason, hearing it in those Stark terms, like I really got it. And that’s true about your relationships, about your career, about the way you eat, the way you exercise, the way you travel, everything. It’s no one else’s business. And that’s so simple, and so easy to forget, for some reason. But you don’t owe an explanation to anybody.
Maggie Germano 38:55
That is so true. And it’s so easy to forget that I mean, we’re all so connected in so many ways now. And we’re you know, especially if we are the type of person who like goes and asks people advice, if we then do the opposite thing that that person said, then it’s like, oh, god, no, I have to like, Go tell them what I think. But like, a lot of the time, it has nothing to actually do with somebody else, right? Like, even if they want the best for you like a parent, right? Even if they they want the best for you. It’s still your life. You’re making the decisions, whether it’s for your money, or parenting or career or whatever, and, and something that a client of mine said the other day because I told her, it might be good for her to start setting boundaries with her mother. Because there was clearly a very toxic relationship going on there in really, in terms of money conversation with her mother. And I was like, yeah, you know what, I think it’s actually really totally fine to be very close with your mom and also set the boundary that you do not discuss money with her. And, and she was like, okay, yes, like I needed that permission. And she’s like, and I also think I need to just remind myself like, even though she’s mean and judgmental related to my finances, she thinks she’s doing it out of love. And so it’s not supposed to be. She’s not trying to make it be malicious, but it still there still does need to be that boundary. So like, acknowledging that it’s coming, in theory from a place of love for my clients own sense of like, right. But also saying, you know, but I’m still allowed to set this boundary. And I think, reminding yourself of that, too, like, whatever you need to tell yourself in order to create that boundary and take some of the maybe potential pain out of the situation while still giving yourself the power instead of worrying so much about what other people think.
Eva Jannotta 40:54
Yeah, you know, growing up is not for kids. It’s hard, like, there you have, there are so many situations like this, you know, relationships that have really difficult challenges or, you know, decisions that you belabor and then you second guess and like, learning and to have a peaceful relationship with money. I mean, all of these are this this ongoing evolutions that we’re all a part of, and they’re they can be really hard.
Maggie Germano 41:25
Yeah, I definitely agree. So what are some, when you’re working with people, or just, you know, when you’re thinking about this now, what are some tips you would give to women as they’re really trying to build up their own confidence, and also feel more capable of making decisions and feeling safe and confident in their decisions? Like, what are some tips that you would give so that they can start down that road?
Eva Jannotta 41:54
Absolutely. So the first one is to and I’ve said this a few times, but be an observer of yourself. And so notice, here’s a really simple example. But have you ever been in a situation where like, you’re in a group maybe and trying to decide where to go out for dinner, and no one states a preference, and like, you don’t want to state a preference, because you know that so and so like, hates Thai food, even though you really want Thai food. But like, you don’t want to say something that then everyone’s going to agree to, but they don’t really want you and you kind of play this game of like, I don’t want to say the wrong thing. I don’t want make anyone else uncomfortable. So I’ll just stay uncomfortable. And it’s this whole cycle. I think a lot of women can relate to that. I’ve totally done that. And I use the example of food because it’s pretty relatable. You know, just like different people have cuisine preferences, and it’s not a good or bad It just is. But I think it can help to practice building your confidence making decisions with really tiny, like, in consequential decisions, like what cuisine to eat for dinner. So just practice, like tuning into, like, what do you actually want? Like, what do you actually like? Do you not want to do that thing? Could you say that, you know, try maybe in safe relationships, first, where the risk is low, whether that whether a safe relationship is a new relationship, or you don’t have any baggage, or it’s a really long standing close relationship where there’s just a lot of good communication. But I think the most important thing we can do when it comes to building our confidence and decision making prowess across many areas is tuning into what we really want.
Maggie Germano 43:32
I love that advice. And I think the idea of starting with really small inconsequential decisions is really, really smart. Because it’s, it’s still a little scary if you’re not used to doing it, but it’s really not gonna be the end of the world if like one person disagrees with where you want to go eat like, that’s fine. And that’s definitely something I’ve struggled with where like I allowed myself to be stuck in the discomfort and the like frustration out of fear of like, being judged or out of fear of making someone else uncomfortable. But then I’m like, but I’m still in a shitty situation, because I’m not speaking up. So what is the point of this? Right?
Eva Jannotta 44:13
Yeah, but yeah, it’s like this, I think because we’ve you know, women are, tend to be socialized people pleasing and accommodating. Like, it’s easy to understand why we get into these places in our relationships where we just feel very stuck and kind of paralyzed when it comes to voicing our preferences, much less making decisions for the group or even for ourselves that might be counter what the group wants. And so if I were to leave you with one tip, it would be that and I think if I were to follow it up with something more practical it would be to just try to let go and delegate as many decisions as you can. Like in my life that looks like hiring a fitness trainer, so I don’t have to decide what to exercise, owning three pairs of pants. So I just have three choices. Eating kind of something similar for lunch every week. And same for breakfast. Those are some of the most obvious examples. I also like simple things like I don’t own any nail polish. So I can’t decide to paint my nails a certain color, I just don’t paint them unless I go to a salon. So there are lots of examples like that, that I’ve found in my own life that work for me that just cut back on having to decide how or what to do. And then the guilt cuts down on the guilt to have like, owning locals that you don’t really use or meaning to exercise but never doing it. And so I like to just like challenge myself, like, How can I be more honest about what I really care about? And how can I make someone else make it easier for me basically, like using the resources I have available to me?
Maggie Germano 45:51
That’s fantastic. I think that’s really good advice. And is that is that the kind of advice you would give to folks who are experiencing decision fatigue? and want to kind of get out of that or avoid it is? Are there other tips related to that that you would give?
Eva Jannotta 46:08
Yeah, I think the final one related to be if you’re in that decision fatigue is to give yourself some time, and some grace and just especially if it’s a decision that feels like it’s the opposite of inconsequential, it’s very consequential, and it just feels like a lot is riding on it. You know not to rush yourself, let yourself maybe get used to the idea. Let yourself talk it over with one or two trusted people. And take a walk, you know, journal about it really give yourself time to feel into the decision.
Maggie Germano 46:41
Yeah, I like that. And is there anything else that we haven’t covered yet around the confidence piece around decision fatigue run? Anything that we’ve covered so far today? Anything you haven’t mentioned that you want to make sure listeners take away?
Eva Jannotta 46:57
I don’t think so. This has been super thorough and super interesting, Maggie.
Maggie Germano 47:02
Yeah, it definitely has been. And I mean, it’s the kind of thing that I’m not necessarily thinking about all the time. But now that we’ve been discussing it, I’m like, No, this is something I definitely need to work on to instead of like spinning my wheels in decision making mode and getting getting overwhelmed by that, which makes life a whole lot harder. For sure. And so is there anything you have going on right now that you want to promote to listeners?
Eva Jannotta 47:30
Yeah, so I’d love to invite listeners, if you are interested in thought leadership for your career or for your business and like what the heck that could mean, I’d love to invite you to take my free email course it’s called Five Pillars of magnetic thought leadership and it’s at number five magnetic pillars COMM And it’s really short, and it teaches you the five pillars like what studies show make thought leadership content, the most magnetic and engaging and compelling possible. So that is fun, and emails also just a good way to get in touch with me. So when you get those emails and you reply to them, it’s really me reading your message. And I love hearing from people via email. I’ve been like a person who has pen pals since I was in elementary school, I just like I just like long form of correspondence. So that and then the other way would be to follow me on connect with me on LinkedIn. That’s my social media network of choice. And I love meeting people over there.
Maggie Germano 48:23
Wonderful anywhere else folks can follow what you’re doing?
Eva Jannotta 48:27
No, actually, I am a social media monogamist I only use LinkedIn that is the best place to connect with me or over via my email list.
Maggie Germano 48:34
Good for you. That sounds very freeing. And I will make sure to link to everything you mentioned in the show notes too. So folks have easy access to you. But thank you so much for taking the time to talk through this today. This was a really interesting conversation for me and, and I know that listeners will get a lot out of it too.
Eva Jannotta 48:54
Thanks, Maggie. Appreciate it.
Maggie Germano 48:55
Thank you so much for listening to the money circle podcast this week. If you like the conversations we’re having here and you’d like to go even deeper. Join the new money circle community. In this safe intersectional feminist space. We will break down money shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggiegermano.com/moneycircle to learn more and to join. If you’d like to get more connected with me subscribe to my weekly newsletter at MaggieGermano.com/subscribe to learn more about my financial coaching services, my speaking and workshop offerings or just to read my blog visit Maggiegermano.com. You can also follow me on instagram and twitter @MaggieGermano. I look forward to hearing from you. Bye bye
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