Job Searching During the COVID-19 Crisis

This week, Maggie chats with Emilie Aries, Founder and CEO of Bossed Up, about how and why you can continue your job search during the COVID-19 crisis.

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Emilie Aries is a speaker, podcast host, author, and the Founder & CEO of Bossed Up, an award-winning personal and professional development community where she helps women craft happy, healthy, and sustainable career paths.

Her new book, Bossed Up: A Grown Woman’s Guide To Getting Your Sh*t Together, serves as a practical roadmap for women who want to set themselves up for sustainable, long-term career success and step up as the boss of their lives.

To learn more about Maggie and her coaching and speaking services, visit

To get more involved with Money Circle:

The theme music is called Escaping Light by Aaron Sprinkle. The podcast artwork design is by Maggie’s dear husband, Dan Rader.


Maggie Germano (00:00):

Hey there and welcome to the money circle podcast. This week’s episode is brought to you by Stitcher premium. Right now is a great time to listen to some of your favorite shows, ad-free with Stitcher premium. Some of my favorites are the neighborhood listen, scam goddess and Conan O’Brien needs a friend. Stitcher premium is only four 99 a month or 34 99 a year, but if you use the code money circle, you can get your first month for free. Go to to sign up today. Thank you so much for tuning in this week. In case you’re a new listener, I’m your host Maggie Germano. Money circle is a podcast for women who want to get their money right without being made to feel like failures. Each week I answer listeners, money questions and interview amazing women who are lifting other women up with their own work. Don’t forget to rate, review and subscribe in your podcasting apps so that more people will hear about this podcast and listen. This week I’m chatting with Emilie Aries who is the founder and CEO of Bossed Up and a good friend of mine. We dig deep into the industries that are most suffering during covid 19 but we also talk about the industries that are experiencing a boom right now. Plus Emily gives tons of advice and guidance related to job searching and networking while also social distancing. If you’re currently job searching or you think you will be in the future, this episode is for you. I hope you enjoy.

Maggie Germano (01:26):

Okay, welcome Emilie. Thanks so much for being here.

Emilie Aries (01:29):

Thank you for having me Maggie.

Maggie Germano (01:31):

So why don’t you just tell us a little bit about who you are and the work.

Emilie Aries (01:36):

Awesome. So I’m Emilie Aries. I started an organization called bossed up back in 2013 in Washington D C and really it, it’s a training and development company that helps women craft happy, healthy and sustainable career paths and I’m so lucky to have cross paths with you through that work. First at our signature leadership development training program, Bossed up bootcamp. And then to have you back as a facilitator on our trainer team has been such a delight. So there’s lots of ways that we help women. I have a bossed up podcast that comes out twice a week, wrote a book last year called bossed up: how to a grown woman’s guide to getting your shit together. And right now we’re just trying to help everybody keep their shit together in the face of COVID-19

Maggie Germano (02:25):

yeah. And I definitely appreciate that and I’m obviously a huge fan of Bossed up and all the work that you do. I mean as like you said, attending bootcamp, I think it was almost five years ago now. It’s kind of crazy to think about. Um, but yeah, and continuing to stay involved as a trainer and coming on the podcast and being in the book and all those things.

Emilie Aries (02:47):

Yeah, I mean you’re such a living example of getting bossed up, so it’s wonderful to be here and it feels like we’re coming full circle.

Maggie Germano (02:55):

Yeah, it really does. And so tell me just a little bit about you got into this work cause I’ve always found that to be a really interesting story.

Emilie Aries (03:03):

Yeah. So I started in the world of grassroots campaigning and advocacy really. So I was a state director of back in the Obama campaign days. I spent my morning, noon and night and weekends, uh, you know, helping everyone else make their voice heard in Washington, grow their power through community organizing and really advocating on behalf of candidates and causes that I believed in. And you know, I found myself very easily falling into what I call a martyrdom mindset. That willingness without, you know, happily ambitious, smiling version of me willing to sacrifice my wellbeing for the good of the cause and it was rewarded, right? We love, we applaud martyrs in our culture, especially in our burnout work culture today because they’re the people who are always coming in early, staying late, burning the midnight oil and our whole lives.

Emilie Aries (04:00):

We’ve been taught that you have to, you know, you have to suffer for success. And three years into living and working that way, not only with my professional persona but also caring for my loved ones, including a partner I was living with and very much in love with at the time who struggles with addiction. I realized that this was not sustainable. Like I cannot keep doing this. I and in some ways I’m very grateful to have burnt out three years into my career instead of three decades in. Cause I know folks who have been on that path for a lot longer than I. And I just realized at 25 years old like I was having, having escapist fantasies, trying to flee my dream job, my dream career. And it was in that moment that I realized work shouldn’t feel this way. Life shouldn’t feel this way.

Emilie Aries (04:53):

And maybe just maybe there’s a different, more sustainable way to work on behalf of issues you care about without sacrificing your personal wellbeing along the way. And it led me to a truly deep intellectual and kind of spiritual awakening for the next two years that looked like completely transforming my life, walking away from a state director title at a different organization, starting over on my own terms, leaving that relationship because it was not serving me. And those were all very difficult personal choices, aided and abetted by a professional therapist who I have to give a lot of credit to. And in that journey I realized that my experience with early burnout was far from unique because women overall have always been conditioned to put everyone else’s needs before our own. And I started bossed up back in 2013 after bouncing back and regaining a sense of power and agency over my life and career that I did not know was possible. And I wanted to help others do the same. So it has been quite a personal and I love helping companies and individuals craft cultures that are now sustainable where we reject the notion that success requires suffering.

Maggie Germano (06:09):

I love that and I love that you are pushing against that idea that in order to work on something that you care about means that you have to suffer and be a martyr. And then also the piece that we’ll probably touch on, which is like being underpaid and overworked. So I love that you push against that. And then I also love that you, you know, you went through that whole transformation for yourself, but you wanted to help other women do the same. And that’s always something I’m very inspired by.

Emilie Aries (06:37):

Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s money is a big part of it. I think we each have our own money baggage and acknowledging that there is water, it’s spread injustice and unfairness in all of this. But we have to advocate doggedly for what we are worth or it will not come our way. So kind of looking in justice and the systematic inequities that exist, acknowledging that they’re real and then finding your way around them and doing what you can to advocate on your own behalf, just like you would for a loved one or a cause you care about is really what getting bossed up is all about. It’s about advocating for the career and life that you want and you deserve, and believing you deserve it even when the world tells you otherwise.

Maggie Germano (07:21):

Oh, exactly. That. That mindset is a big piece. That belief is a big part of it. And, and I really do like, that’s something I’ve always really appreciated too, that you talk about, is that, you know, it’s not just up to us as individuals to change our circumstances, especially when it comes to salary and negotiation. It is a greater societal issue that needs to be dealt with. But we do still have power to take action in our own lives and advocate for ourselves. And I think that both of those two things can exist at once.

Emilie Aries (07:49):

Absolutely. Well said.

Maggie Germano (07:51):

Thank you. So I have you here today in the midst of the coronavirus crisis and how all of, you know, there’s a lot of conversation around worrying about our jobs and our income and being able to support ourselves and continue moving forward through all of this. While it feels like the world is kind of coming to a screeching halt, um, but a big part of your work does focus on the job search and salary negotiation. And you did an event, an online event recently about how to continue that job search even during a crisis like this.

Emilie Aries (08:28):


Maggie Germano (08:29):

So I guess I would ask you, should people be doing that? Should people be continuing to look for a new job or continue their job search even during a time like this?

Emilie Aries (08:41):

It’s so great preliminary question because it really depends on your circumstances. I think the job search question looks very different for the millions of Americans who just filed for unemployment last week and probably will continue to grow this week. Um, there’s a lot of people facing unemployment, job insecurity for load situation, which is basically a temporary unemployment situation because this crisis is very unique. Um, never before has such a widespread, um, shut down, been required from a health public health standpoint that has such an immediate and pretty drastic impact on the economy. So for a certain subset of the population, they don’t have a choice to have a job search or not. They need to seek out and they’re collecting unemployment checks, which thank God the government has taken Swift action to increase. Um, and to offer now to those who’ve who faced hours being cut and contract employees who can now seek out unemployment benefits, which has never been done before.

Emilie Aries (09:50):

Um, but for the unemployed American, yeah, definitely gotta be gotta be on the hunt no matter what. Now that being said, I also have worked with women and I continue to work with women who have long been feeling stifled and they’ve been hitting a roadblock in the workplace where they currently are. And I don’t, I think it’s a bad idea to continue your job search. I just think we have to have realistic expectations. You know, the most recent statistics on this before the coronavirus struck found that the average job search takes between, um, five to six months to land a new job. And so, you know, why not do the work right now to start that five to six month countdown right now, assuming things do go back to normal in your industry or maybe your industry has been relatively unscathed, the reality is a lot of employers just are doing what all of us are doing battening down the hatches and waiting to see what’s going to happen.

Emilie Aries (10:53):

So do not expect a job offer in the next two weeks necessarily, unless you are in a handful of very specific industries which are blowing up right now. And I’d be happy to go into more detail on that if you want. Yeah. What are those industries that are blowing up right now? So I always look at the, the, the Corona virus crisis in terms of industries that were hardest hit and industries that are hiring. So for us, just to acknowledge the obvious, but hospitality, retail and restaurants, events and conventions, transportation and travel, um, entertainment and gambling and even oil and gas, those industries have been hardest hit. They’re not only not hiring, they’re often massively laying people off. Right now, even the airlines are trying to pay, um, some of their staff to voluntarily, voluntarily furlough themselves, um, which is taking paid leave, uh, reduced paid leave but paid leave for the next year.

Emilie Aries (11:51):

Um, so those industries are not going to recover right away. Those have been taking a big wall up. Then the other hand, as a result of this crisis, shipping and delivery companies are booming. Online learning companies cannot hire teachers fast enough to help with the now virtual educational needs of our country. Grocery stores. Obviously those folks are on the front lines of this crisis, but widespread support is needed on that front. Um, I would also argue that we need to be paying those people hazard pay, which many of them are striking about right now because they are putting them there. Those workers are in danger in terms of being on the front lines of this crisis. Just like healthcare professionals. And of course the healthcare industry is on this list as well, of which industries are hiring right now. Remote meeting companies and online communications companies.

Emilie Aries (12:46):

We all heard about zoom being amazing. We’re using zoom right now. Companies like zoom and zoom are hiring right now. Child care for those in the gig economy who are looking for short term gigs. You know, working families are struggling right now and they’re there for safe health conscious ways to bring in childcare services. So companies that can help meet that need with our like while respecting social distancing norms somehow, which you know, that’s not my specialty. Um, our POI is to do very well right now. Even if you’re just approaching your neighbor or you know, telling your family members that this is something you can offer to working parents who are desperately in need of childcare right now. And finally, cleaning services, especially commercial cleaning companies and operations and manufacturing companies. So those are, I mean there is hiring continues to happen and for a lot of the industries that have placed temporary hiring freezes who’ve been somewhat effected but not completely, you know, taken out like the airline industries, they will continue to rehire or start hiring again in the near future. So we’re all hoping and praying that this slow down, this economic impact will be a temporary one.

Maggie Germano (14:10):

I hope so too. For sure. And I mean, I guess it’s all a matter of like continuing to do the things that we need to be doing to make sure that the trends go in the direction that they, we hope that they should and yup. Yeah. So yeah, I think what you were saying about, um, childcare in particular where it’s like, obviously it’s necessary, people still need it. We can’t just completely give up, but like how do they do that in a way that is safe and, and proper. Right. And I’m also not an expert on that, so hopefully there are people out there who can help people figure that out. Um, but it’s also sounds like obviously you listed a whole bunch of industries that are suffering right now and that kind of halting and plummeting, unfortunately. But you also listed a whole lot of different industries that are really rising up to meet these new needs.

Maggie Germano (15:01):

And I have a friend who, she works at a big university and she’s in the it department, so she’s like so busy because they have to transition an entire traditional university to online learning. And so they, there’s no way she’s at risk of losing her job. She’s working more than ever before. So there are lots of opportunities out there. And even for something like delivery or grocery stores and things like that, you don’t have to necessarily have a specific skill set or a specific like job history in order to be able to qualify for those kinds of jobs. Still looking for, at least in the short term, in the short term, those kinds of opportunities, I think it’s good to at least know they’re out there.

Emilie Aries (15:42):

Yeah, absolutely. And then the cares act that Congress passed just last week also has ramifications in terms of pretty immediate, uh, meaning in the next few weeks funding that will be made available through the small business association to help small businesses keep people on payroll. So for those who feel a sense of job insecurity cause they’re working for a small company, start that conversation with your boss. Now, make sure they know all about the PPP program, which is the payroll protection program. Um, and also they have put forth eight point $3 billion with a B going to federal agencies that are responding to COVID-19. So you can be sure that those federal agencies will be hiring and um, 7 billion is going to loans to keep those small businesses employees paid. And another 240 million are going to small business development centers, including women’s business centers and other technical assistance providers. So it’s also quite possible that certain segments of the government will be hiring. So for people who are looking to pivot or looking for a job transition, you know, for those who are willing to run in to this crisis. And help. There’s actually quite a few opportunities and quite a boom happening. Um, thankfully Congress actually moved fast on this.

Maggie Germano (17:13):

Yeah, that was something that was really good to see. And you know, I think in the news a lot of the conversation has been around like the student loans and the stimulus checks that most of us would be receiving. But I think what you were mentioning with small business loans and the government agencies being more funded, that’s an also, that’s a huge piece to help people get there.

Emilie Aries (17:36):

Billions of dollars, you’re like, they can just do that. It does make you scratch your head and wonder what they were talking about when they say things like, we can’t afford a paid family leave federally now. I’m like, I call bullshit.

Maggie Germano (17:50):

Yeah. Oh that’s how I feel too. It’s like, Oh, we can afford it when we decide there’s literally no other option so we can afford it. We can afford other things too. So hopefully that’s part of what I’m hoping to see at the end of all of this is like getting recognition around the things that we can’t give up anymore and the things that we really need. Like you mentioned paid family leave and paid sick leave and universal healthcare, all of the things that we desperately need right now. I hopefully that ends up becoming more of a push over. Definitely all of this.

Emilie Aries (18:21):

We should have a whole other podcast conversation about it because if this, I was just talking with my husband about how the democratic primary timing with this, like if super Tuesday was just, you know, if all of this had started just before super Tuesday, I think we would have a very different forecast politically right now. But we’ll see.

Maggie Germano (18:43):

Yup. That’s what I was thinking about the other day too. So we’ll see. But yeah, I’m happy to talk about that later. Um, so it sounds like with what you were saying, especially for people who are looking for opportunities to pivot in their career or who are just looking for opportunities because they need opportunities cause they’ve lost their job. It sounds like there needs to be, you need to be paying attention to the right places and looking at those government agencies and at those industries in particular that are really looking for people and just being strategic with that.

Emilie Aries (19:15):

Absolutely. And I just had a online workshop that I delivered yesterday, um, that we’ll probably be making available, uh, next week on demand as well about how to organize your job search right now because it can be very confusing. Like there’s so much news and I did not think that watching the news all day, every day is good for you professionally or personally. So there is an element of yes you want to stay on top of things, but from my perspective, the fundamental components to jobs searching have not changed. So you need to spend time doing three things in particular. One getting extremely clear on your goals and your audience. Those are the two fundamentals of persuasive communication. And when you are running a job search, you are running a persuasion campaign and you are trying to persuade your audience to hire you. So you have to get really clear on what your audience is.

Emilie Aries (20:11):

Pain points are, what your goals are, how to communicate them while being considerate of what your audience is going through. The second thing people have to do is get their job search assets together, meaning rock that resume. Make sure you know how AI screeners can help or harm your chances. Make sure you understand the principles of white space and how important that is for the human eye when being presented with your resume. Make sure you are applying the best methodologies for persuasively communicating transferable skills. No one cares what you did in the past if it is not relevant to what you can do in the future. And so those are the kinds of asset management coaching that I provide for our job search clients. And let me tell you that part of it can take a while. Like it takes consistent effort, hours and hours, uh, to get your job search assets together.

Emilie Aries (21:09):

Especially if you want to add your LinkedIn profile to the conversation, a CV website to manage your SEO. You know, there’s just so many elements, technical elements to the modern job search that you can do this at a very high level and it can make your, the rest of your efforts pay off so much more. And then the third, if I may, which I’m also hosting a workshop on tomorrow, is effective online networking. Networking is how you get the best jobs. So if you are not looking for a bridge job, which is just an Instacart position or something to just pay the bills and bring some money in right now, which by the way, there’s no shame in that game. I’ve taken many a bridge job in my life and you know, any job is a great job if you have no other option. But if you’re looking for the right next career move, you have to take a networking focused approach to your job search.

Emilie Aries (22:07):

And once you have your goals and audience clarified and you have your job search assets polished up and ready to go, the networking piece is the main engine of the job search. So every single day, making new connections, cold, reaching out, write cold emails to people who might be a service to you, reaching out and asking for support, any respectful and mutually beneficial way, and having those one-on-one meetings. In this case, you can’t buy them coffee in person. So maybe send them a little Starbucks gift card after a zoom call if they’ve provided a ton of support and value to you to say, thank you so much. The next one’s on me. You know, like giving yourself out there, being willing to ask for support and then being willing to be a little annoying, right? Like get yourself out there in an unabashed way because you have got to show people what value you have to offer. And really leading with that is a very authentic way to build new relationships. Even a mid, a core Dean, uh, and, and network your way to the best opportunities that might not even make it online.

Maggie Germano (23:19):

Yeah, no, all of that is super helpful. And I, and I like how you really broke it down on, you know, the different steps or the different parts of this process. And that’s another reason why I think it’s so important to start now, even if it’s going to take awhile because this stuff does take time to get through, especially when you’re maybe not feeling super productive during a global pandemic. So you can only get a little bit done every day. At least you don’t have to wait till this is over and then it’s six months from then. So I like that.

Emilie Aries (23:49):

If I may, it also, you just reminded me of the fact that my full time job seekers can never do this all at once. So if you have, if you are unemployed right now, you know, obviously silver lining, unemployment is like that’s something no one wants to hear. So I’m not trying to bring any light to this very dark situation, but spending a week on your goals and audience clarification is perfectly valid. Spending a week on getting your assets together if not two weeks. Make sense? Like this stuff takes time and then the networking becomes a constant component. But my, uh, my job search accelerator called hired, which is a three month program, is actually designed for people with full time jobs because w we only do a little bit of homework every week. We have curriculum based video learning that involves doing one or two small assignments each week and then a group call to review them together so that you’re feeling that sensation of forward momentum because you’re right, it takes time to do this. You’ve got to make those micro steps of progress happen now even if you’re not going to be applying to jobs until a month or two from now.

Maggie Germano (25:01):

Yeah. And I think that having like a whole week or two weeks to finish one thing makes it more likely that you’ll do it. Yeah. Cause I know for me in my experience, if I’m like, okay, I need to launch my course and that’s my task, I’m never going to do it. I literally still have not launched a course. So freaking exactly. It’s too big. So you have to break it down. And I think it’s the same exact thing with the job search where it’s like get finished. My resume this week.

Emilie Aries (25:30):


Maggie Germano (25:31):

And that’s, that’s okay. It takes time and allowing yourself to be more likely to actually do it from there.

Emilie Aries (25:37):

Plus so much of the job search is writing and unless you are a full time writer, which weirdly you and I have found ourselves kind of being that some, you know that’s a hot we were, but that is a muscle that takes time to develop. And so all of a sudden you go from being a scientist or a customer service rep or a sales person and now you have to be a writer. Now you have to be a great written communicator about you. You know, and sharing this story of you is so hard. So the best thing I have learned as someone who’s become a writer over the years is that all writing is process writing. No first draft is the best draft. So you need time, you need a week to write your resume cause you need day one to write your crappiest first version of it, walk away from it, have a cocktail and give up for the day. And then you need to come back to it the next morning and have a better idea and look at it again the next day and get feedback on it from a friend the next day. And it, it’s iterative. So because writing is always iterative and so much of the job search involves writing, if you are not already a writer who is used to that process, it can be very daunting because your first draft is your worst draft every time.

Maggie Germano (26:53):

Yeah, no, that is such an important point too because yeah, like exactly like you said, it’s a muscle. It’s something you have to build up over time. It’s not just going to be perfect. And I mean I’m one of those people who I want to be perfect at something the first thing, first time I do it. So I completely relate to people who have that same feeling when it comes to the job search and resume building. But expecting that is only going to make you feel frustrated and make you give up overtime.

Emilie Aries (27:19):

Totally. And it’s also a good reminder that there are people who do this professionally. I’m myself included, who you don’t need to bring me in for like three months, right? Like the hired program is a very in depth three month accelerator, but bringing someone in just for a small consultation to get a professional eyes like a professional set of eyes on it can go a long way. I worked with someone last week who is a C suite level professional who got laid off just before the Corona virus unfortunately, and she happens to work in health and safety, so she’s actually going to have a lot of options during this time for getting into emergency preparedness and health and safety. But she has so much experience, 20 years of experience that her resume was covered from one top left hand corner to the bottom right hand corner with text and I was like, Oh my God, this is so overwhelming. Let’s break this apart. And we went through line by line and didn’t just think about the words, which were a big part of it. We thought about the visual representation and the layout and the design and how to make this both friendly to AI screeners and the human reader of your resume and just a little bit of support can go really long wide pretty quickly.

Maggie Germano (28:38):

Yeah. So allowing yourself to ask for help, whether it is from a friend or a professional who helps with resumes and the job search.

Emilie Aries (28:45):


Maggie Germano (28:46):

Yeah. So just to go back a little bit to something you said earlier about online networking and how networking is a huge piece of this. So you mentioned that it’s very important to approach this as respectfully as possible, but you also said that you have to get used to being annoying as well. So how do we balance the two and what does that kind of look like?

Emilie Aries (29:08):

I think that’s the million dollar question, right? So I used the word annoying only starting recently because I found that it’s very freeing for women in particular. I think women are so hesitant to be seen as a nag. I don’t, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a man be called naggy nagging, much less be worried about being perceived as such. So I think it’s a very gendered concern cause I hear from women online in our boss step courage community on Facebook all the time. Here’s how it goes. I just saw this one this morning and it’s like the same story every time I applied for this job we were going, you know it was all going well. We had third round interview scheduled that had to be postponed because of the COVID crisis. Should I follow up with them? I don’t want to be seen as annoying.

Emilie Aries (29:59):

And I’m like, girl, what is the calculation? What is the question here? Of course you should follow up with them. So I think we have to say again and again and again to women in particular, here’s your permission slip to risk being perceived as potentially a little annoying. Guess what? Nobody actually perceives you as annoying, only you are worried about being seen as annoying. So I would always argue that the balance is, we want to be respectful and considerate in how we follow up. That does not mean don’t follow up. So for instance, let us not slide into employer’s DMs or do anything of the like on social media, do not blow up my Facebook messages. If I don’t reply to your email, I don’t reply to your email, bump it up for me. Right? Bump it up and say, Hey, I saw, you know, wanted to bump this up in your inbox.

Emilie Aries (30:57):

It probably got buried last week. Hope you’re healthy and safe. Let me know what you think. That’s as quick and respectful a bump up as you can do. But if I’m not getting back to you, do not tweet at me. Do not tweet at my colleagues. You know what I mean? Let’s not do the multichannel assaults. That would not be respectful. And then the other thing is what are you actually saying when you bump it up for people? Are you inquiring about their wellbeing? Because if someone feels like, if you feel like you’re being ghosted by someone in a professional capacity, it is always safe to assume the worst. Assume that their parent has COVID and that they’re on their death bed. Right. Or assume that, um, this person themselves is extremely ill. Right. Give them the benefit of the doubt and write an email that if that worst case scenario were to be, the current situation would still be received relatively well.

Emilie Aries (31:53):

Right. So you’re not going to say, Hey, you know, I noticed you haven’t gotten back to me in the past two weeks. What? Gibbs. Right. But that doesn’t mean don’t send the email, just send it with concern, send it with compassion, send it with empathy, but not sending, it doesn’t make yourself come across great either. Like we want to know that you’re still interested. You have to let other people set their boundaries. You can’t set boundaries for people. So I think, you know, maybe emailing with a frequency of once every other week or once a week, given this time would be a reasonable frequency, but to do it and don’t be apologetic about it. Yeah. I think all of that is such fantastic, especially

Maggie Germano (32:40):

the piece about just being compassionate and kind and respectful whenever you’re falling up. Because one of the best pieces of advice I got from a business coach was assume that nothing is actually about you. Right? Like someone not replying or a potential client not getting back to you. They’re not sitting around thinking like, Oh, I don’t like her. I’m not going to work with her. They’re distracted by their family or they’re not checking their email this week for whatever reason. Like it’s usually not about you. It’s usually about the thousand other things every person has to deal with on a daily basis, especially during a time like this. So always assuming that maybe they got distracted and they just need a reminder.

Emilie Aries (33:21):

Absolutely. That’s a great, great piece of advice.

Maggie Germano (33:24):

Yeah. No, and so that’s really helpful in just understanding and I, and I think just transferring it to being online networking, it’s the same kind of advice as you would if you could actually meet up in person. And I really loved your advice about sending over a gift card or something like that as a thing.

Emilie Aries (33:43):

It’s cause you would buy their coffee if you could rent in person. Um, and the thing to keep in mind is online networking does not mean doing it all via email. Like the email is simply the mechanism to land the meeting. People like connecting with people. If you can, using video software like zoom or Google hangout or a FaceTime call is going to foster so much more connection and it doesn’t matter how perfectly imperfect your house looks, right? Like get on video chat. It is not, it is not. Um, you know, it’s not about looking perfect. It’s about connecting human to human. And when you do land that meeting, people want to hear your story. They want to know what motivates you and it can’t be, I will take any job, I am desperate, I want anything. That story will not cut it. You need to explain to people what your motivation is in a big way, right.

Emilie Aries (34:45):

In terms of the impact you want to have ideally in your career. And it’s okay to say say, you know, I’m willing to be flexible but no one can help you if they have no idea what you want. So you have to go in with a clear sense of your goals. Even if you feel like, what if I’m aiming too high? You know, what if these goals are unrealistic, have them anyway, communicate them anyway. It’s like you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take that absolutely applies. Or you have to show them what you got and then tell them you can be flexible and to keep you in mind. And you know, asking for their support and making other connections and networking your way to other possible opportunities and teams that could use the skills that you have right now is really what you’re after.

Maggie Germano (35:31):

Yeah, no, I love that. And that just continues that conversation. And, and I think if you really have those goals and uh, you know, your eventual ideal job situation really communicated to people, they’ll keep you in mind. They’ll remember you. They will, like you said, make those connections for you. And it is a human interaction. We’re not just communicating, even though we’re all going over the internet and computers, we’re still talking to humans. It’s not robots.

Emilie Aries (36:00):

Totally and eye contact in the digital era is actually a big part of it too, which is why I’m such a big fan of video calls. You know, phone is better than email, but video is better than phone because you can see their facial expressions, they can see yours and you can read so much more into the conversation. It’s interesting though. You want it, like you’re saying, you want to establish rapport that will last well beyond this crisis because I want you to imagine that whoever you’re meeting with will someday get an email from one of their colleagues saying, Hey, do you know anyone who would be good at chemical engineering in the biotech space in Boulder right now? We are desperate for someone to add to our team. You need to assume that that conversation will be happening in the future and you want them to be like, yes, I talked with this incredible woman.

Emilie Aries (36:52):

You have got to meet her. She and I connected a few months back, but I hope she’s still available. You know, I love that. Yeah. So prepare yourself for that future scenario and ask what resources they would recommend you look into. Cause they might have access to listservs and employee resource groups and blogs and conferences that have now gone online that you don’t even know about. So there’s just so many ways that people to people, um, can help people to people, community building. And we have to keep in mind that most of the time people do want the help. So don’t be, you know, don’t be coy and asking for it.

Maggie Germano (37:32):

Exactly. And just ask for it and send the follow up like you said, like always, always, always follow up.

Emilie Aries (37:37):

Yeah. If you, if someone gives you their time and, and talents, right. And shares their expertise and experience with you and then you never follow up, Ooh, that is a sour taste to leave in that person’s mouth. And then, then they’ll think twice before recommending you because you’re like, I don’t know, this person was cool on the phone, but then they kind of flaked on me. And I never heard from them again. It makes them less likely to trust you. So know that the followup matters, even if it’s just a little email thanking them or a piece of snail mail or I’m a big, I’m a big believer in little gifts. That’s probably my love language. So even a little token of appreciation can go a long way, uh, and and leaving a really strong impression in someone’s mind.

Maggie Germano (38:20):

Yeah, I totally agree. That’s really good advice. So as people are continuing to work through this process, whether it is that they got laid off and need to find a new gig or whether they are employed and want to continue on with the job search, a pivot they want to make, how can they maintain that motivation and productivity around that? I mean, just generally, I feel like the job search, you said it can take five to six months. Sometimes it can be exhausting and you can lose motivation. But especially during a time like now where there’s so much outside stress kind of influencing us right now, how do you recommend people maintain that motivation?

Emilie Aries (39:00):

Yeah, that’s a great question. I, I remember writing about this on the Boston blog and maybe podcasting about how to sustain yourself through a long uncertain job search process. And some of those principles are still true today, but given the chronic stress we’re all under right now, we have to take very seriously the need for our bodies and minds to flush our systems of stress hormones on a regular basis. Because right now in all of our brains, cortisol and a smorgasbord of stress hormones are building up and literally picking our brain apart. Like our brain actually shrinks in response to chronic stress. And one of the first areas of our brain that gets damaged is the part of our brain that helps us manage stress, which is the irony of the science behind burnout. And that’s why, you know, during times like this, something that would normally just be a kind of annoyance can make you cry.

Emilie Aries (40:03):

Like locking your keys in the car would be just like a bad day on a normal day. But now it’s like the end of the world and it makes you turn into a puddle of tears. So you really have to close the stress cycle, which means really three things that I highly recommend. One exercise daily, if you’re getting stressed out daily, exercising daily is one of the fastest and most effective ways to literally flush your system of stress hormones. And whether you hate running or not, now’s a good time to try it. I started running for the first time in years last week and it has just boosted my mental health daily basis. Um, and that might also include just dancing to Beyonce in your kitchen right now or you know, just playing with your pets or running around chasing your kid. You know, a little bit of high intensity interval training will go along with right now.

Emilie Aries (40:59):

Um, second two ways that you can release stress is to cry and to scream. And while these sound a little nontraditional, they’re actually the most traditional way that our bodies know that we’ve recovered from a crisis. You know, back in our cave woman days when we saw a saber tooth tiger, our bodies knew we’d recovered up from it after we ran or after we’d scream or cry. And hopefully, you know, we’re still alive to continue crying or screaming about it so it can really signal something very carnal and deep in our, in our, and our wiring. Um, do you show that you’re, you’re safe. So let yourself have a good cry. Let yourself have a good scream as long as it doesn’t scare your neighbors and have anyone call the police on you. But, uh, I, I’ve been telling a lot of my job search clients in particular, self care is not negotiable right now.

Emilie Aries (41:56):

You need to, and we all need to make self compassion and self care a primary objective every day. And I’ll give you an example. I’m scrambling to try to save my business right now and I’m hustling and stressed out on a myriad of fronts in terms of taking care of my employees, taking care of my clients, transitioning my services to be online as much as possible. And I pushed a meeting today by 10 minutes because I really needed to get in a run, even if it was just like a 15 minute run. And you know, it wasn’t the end of the world. So we all need to lower our bar for our own performance right now. Looks like not make the pandemic about personal development. Let’s make it about survival and just compassion and lowering our own expectations for ourselves and increasing our self care right now. That is what we all need.

Maggie Germano (42:52):

I love that as a takeaway. That’s totally huge and I’ve been posting that a lot online of like you don’t have to be productive right now. I mean you have to do it, you have to do to get through, but you don’t have to write a book or discover gravity like every, everything that’s going around right now.

Emilie Aries (43:08):

I hate, I hate the people who are like, I mean I love what you’re posting. First of all I’m always like reposting what you share on Instagram, but I think the personal development space, of which I am basically a part of, it needs to cool it with all the: How much time you have at home now, how are you going to make the most of it? It just makes me wanna. I roll the hardest I roll in my life. And I’m like, how about we just survive this? We have a little compassion for ourselves and our teams and our colleagues and our clients. And the most important thing is your health and safety and let’s not lose sight of that. I completely agree.

Maggie Germano (43:46):

I think that’s a great place to end this conversation. But first I want to make sure that you’ve already mentioned everything that you want to make sure to promote. So you’ve talked about a couple of webinars and you’ve talked about the Facebook group and the your accelerator, but yeah, anything else you want to sure people know about?

Emilie Aries (44:04):

Thank you so much, Maggie. No, I think that’s it. Honestly, if you had to bust up that or you can find out more about our free, uh, and premier, uh, services when it comes to the job search, which is something we’re really focusing on right now. We also have a free downloadable robust negotiation guide at and our blog and podcast. We’re constantly coming up with new ways to support women who want to craft happy, healthy, and career paths. So thanks for, thanks for being a part of our community. Maggie, thanks for having me.

Maggie Germano (44:36):

Of course. And I’ll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes. And aside from the website, how can people get in touch with you?

Emilie Aries (44:44):

I’m [email protected]. You can also slide into my DMs on Instagram. Just don’t do my inbox and Instagram at the same time. Would ya, you know, one or the other. Pick your poison. But I do love, I love chatting with people on Instagram as well. And I’m @EmilieAries with an IE, so E, M, I, L, I, E. and then Aries like the Zodiac sign.

Maggie Germano (45:04):

Awesome. And again, I will link to all of that in the show notes so people have it. Uh, but again, thank you so much. This was a really great conversation. I think a lot of people will take a lot out of this and really start to ramp up that job search when they’re ready.

Maggie Germano (45:20):

Thanks for tuning in to the money circle podcast this week. Make sure that you rate, review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. It might not seem all that important, but subscribing and rating actually helps to get the money, circle podcasts in other people’s ears. If you’d like to get more connected with money, circle or with me. There are lots of ways you can do that. To join the free Facebook group, visit to stay informed of any upcoming events. Subscribe to my weekly [email protected]/subscribe. To learn more about my financial coaching services, my speaking and workshop offerings, or just to read my blog, visit you can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter @MaggieGermano. Thanks so much for listening. Bye.