In this episode, Maggie chats with Planned Parenthood's Kelley Robinson about why the 2020 Presidential election is so important when it comes to our healthcare, our access to reproductive health services, our financial choices, and more.
Worried about the election on November 3rd? Me too! Listen to this week’s podcast episode with Kelley Robinson of Planned Parenthood to learn more about what’s at stake and how you can get involved to ensure the right outcome.
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Kelley Robinson currently serves as the Executive Director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund and as the Vice President of Advocacy and Organizing at Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Robinson enters this role with over 12 years of experience as a leader in the progressive field, with an expertise in sexual and reproductive health, and a deep commitment to leading with equity.
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Maggie Germano 0:07
Thanks for listening to the money circle Podcast. I am your host, Maggie Germano and I’m a financial coach for women. I’m passionate about helping women improve their relationship with money so that they can take better control of their futures. Part of that journey is making personal finance education more accessible and less judgmental, which is why this podcast exists. Each week we’ll discuss a new financial topic to help you explore how you can make a difference in your own financial life or in society as a whole. If you’re interested in diving deeper into issues like income inequality, debt or money, shame, check out my new money circle community. In this safe feminist space women gathered to talk about money without fear of being judged or shamed. We will break down shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggiegermano.com/moneycircle to learn more and to join the community today. I can’t wait to see you there.
Hey there, and thanks for listening. I’m your host Maggie Germano. And this week, I’m chatting with Kelley Robinson, who currently serves as the executive director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund. And as the vice president of advocacy and organizing at Planned Parenthood Federation of America. In this episode, we dig into why the 2020 presidential election is so important when it comes to our health care, our access to reproductive health services, our financial choices, and plenty more. If you’d like to learn more about why this election is so important, and how you can get actively engaged to get out the vote to protect our democracy. This episode is for you. Plus, Kelley shares why she’s so hopeful right now, even during this scary time. Enjoy.
All right. Welcome, Kelley, thanks so much for being here today.
Kelley Robinson 2:04
Thanks so much for having me, Maggie.
Maggie Germano 2:07
So just so everyone at home knows, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Kelley Robinson 2:14
Absolutely. Well, my name is Kelley Robinson. I’m the executive director at Planned Parenthood Action Fund. And what that means is, you know, many people are familiar with Planned Parenthood centers, we’ve got over 600 locations all across the country that are there to provide folks critical health care when they need it. And and that’s our mission work. We also have the Action Fund where I work, which is our survival work to ensure that we’re fighting for laws and policies to keep those health centers open and ensure that you know, no matter how much money you have, no matter where you live, no matter your citizenship status, that everybody gets equal access to health care.
Maggie Germano 2:50
Yeah, and I so appreciate that work. And I have several friends who work at Planned Parenthood and every day lately, I’m thanking them for the work that they do. So thank you for the work, you’re doing it the action fun to make sure that these services remain available.
Kelley Robinson 3:04
Absolutely. It’s really a privilege, I have to say.
Maggie Germano 3:08
And so how did you find yourself in this line of work? Did you always know that this is what you wanted to do? How did that kind of journey look like for you?
Kelley Robinson 3:15
Not at all, I had no idea that this was like an occupation that folks had to be quite honest with you. You know, I am I grew up in Chicago went to school in Missouri. And Missouri is really where I had my awakening to all things organizing and advocacy. I ended up taking a little break from school because you know, things were getting me down in the state of Missouri. And I was actually making money by bartending and doing MMA fighting. So like cage fighting, because there’s a there’s a big popular circuit in the mid in the Midwest, if y’all want to if anyone ever wants to learn about it. But anyway, so I was doing that. And I remember that I had this moment where I got a call from the 2008 Obama campaign, and they asked me if I wanted to be an organizer. I said, hey, what does that look like? Like, do I still have to you know, am I still gonna have to wrestle focuses to make money here? And they actually said, No, well, you have to wrestle folks, but it just looks a little bit different. You know, it’s more of a political wrestling. But anyway, when I stepped into the Obama for America office in 2008, it was the first time where I saw people that were pissed off and feeling angry about things in the world that felt unsolvable. But these people had a plan. They understood that through getting together by linking our voices at that time linking our votes, we could be more powerful than our circumstance. And from there, I mean, I’ve just been totally hooked on what it really means to build community power that’s by and for the people. So after Obama, I found my first job at Planned Parenthood which was in Iowa as a community organizer.
Maggie Germano 4:45
That’s really great. I always love hearing those stories of like how you find your way kind of into the work that you do and I think yours is probably one of the more interesting especially with the cage fighting piece. It’s really interesting. The the diff the jury And I think it sounds like you just were really inspired and excited by the people that you were meeting and the idea of having a plan rather than just being very overwhelmed and frustrated by the world.
Kelley Robinson 5:11
Absolutely. I mean, it was that moment, I feel like everyone has this moment in your life where either you, you find your purpose, or that you realize something is possible that once felt impossible. And that was it for me. And that’s why I’ve always been in love with organizing and really in love with, you know, the power that we have as a community. Yeah, absolutely.
Maggie Germano 5:28
I love that. And so can you touch on a little bit of why you feel that the work that you do at Planned Parenthood, and the work that Planned Parenthood does more generally is so important?
Kelley Robinson 5:42
Absolutely. Well, and I think that there’s an urgency to it. Now, that is particularly key. I mean, at its core, when I think about Planned Parenthood, really what we stand for is fighting to ensure that every person has the ability to make the decisions that are right for themselves and for their family. And if we can do that about our bodies, right, then it becomes possible to do it in every other aspect of our lives in terms of choosing a career, building our families, right, more just becomes possible when we have agency over our bodies. And I think that right now, those core principles and beliefs are really under attack in an acute way. So I think that this work has always been important. But right now, I think that the country is making some big decisions of, you know, which communities are we standing up for? What is it going to look like for us to affirm people to have rights over their bodies and their own lives? And really, you know, especially this year, I think voters are making that decision at the polls.
Maggie Germano 6:33
I totally agree. And I wholeheartedly agree with what you’re saying about, you know, having that agency over your own body and how that makes, it really influences what you’re able to do just generally in your life, whether that’s financially or in terms of career where you have to, you know, live and all the things you can do. It’s just, it’s touches so deeply to the idea of freedom and choice. And so I’m also very passionate about that, you know, when it comes to, you know, reproductive justice, as well as economic justice, and all all the ways that that intertwine.
Kelley Robinson 7:06
Maggie Germano 7:09
And so, yeah, can you tell us a little bit more I mean, as we’re recording this, the presidential debate was last night, so everyone’s probably feeling a little rough today, whether they watched or not. But tell us a little bit more about kind of what’s at stake in terms of the election this November? And what people really should be keeping Top of Mind as they’re considering their vote.
Kelley Robinson 7:31
Absolutely. I mean, literally, everything is at stake. I mean, you brought up the debate, the presidential debate last night, my first shot, my first feeling when I was watching, it was just shocked, right? Like, this is really what the discourse in our country has evolved to. And then my second realization, as it kind of sunk in was just this real feeling of fear, right fear for our democracy. And you know, look, I’m a woman of color, I’m a black woman in America, you know, the promise of democracy, the promise of this country hasn’t quite upheld itself to my communities just yet. But we believe that there is a structure within that we could fight for that could possibly be if we fought hard enough by and for the people, right. And I think what we saw on that stage, was the current president really undermining our democracy undermining our right to vote undermining the polls in a way that is, quite frankly, dangerous, right. And all of this is happening in the context that we all live, where folks are homeschooling their kids, like that’s an urgent thing that we’re dealing with, in the context of over 200,000 people having died from the corona virus and that virus still waging on in the midst of a reckoning around rate systemic racism in this country. So for me, I think that those are the things that are on the line, right? What does it actually look like for us to make sure that we’re electing people that will protect our health, our safety and our freedoms in this country? I think you saw a clear contrast on the stage last night. So you know, when I say everything is at stake, I really do mean, everything is at stake, and we have to make sure we get to vote, our cousins, our Auntie’s. Everybody got to vote this year. And that’s really kind of my takeaway I walked away with last night.
Maggie Germano 9:16
Oh, yeah, I hear you and I totally agree. I, you know, I feel like in past elections, maybe it has felt more like, you know, just a political language around like what’s at stake, but this year, I’d say, especially with the coronavirus, especially with the Black Lives Matter movement this year in particular, and everything else that’s going on, it really is and with, you know, the Supreme Court just, it’s kind of terrifying. And I feel like it can make people feel really scared and paralyzed. And especially with, you know, the threats against democracy and wondering like, what can we actually do? What do you kind of say, I’m sure you’re here. A lot of that from you know, your colleagues and other people in your life. What do you kind of say to those people who are like, what can I even do at this point? You know, what, how do you sort of encourage people?
Kelley Robinson 10:11
Yeah, and I mean, for me, this is not the time to be fearful, this is a time to be clear eyed, and resolute in what we’ve got to accomplish. And despite what you heard on that stage, we know that we have a strong democracy, we’ve got systems set up to make sure that people can vote, I think what I would say is make a plan, right? Especially your voting plan, make sure that you are if you’re going to be voting absentee, then request that ballot Now, if you’re able to in your state, and look, in many states, people are already voting, I saw lines in Virginia over the past couple of weeks, because people are eager to get out to the polls. And I think where you can vote early, go ahead and do that. And then the other step is to bring other folks along with you, I told you my story about how I came into organizing and a key theory is, or excuse me, I should actually quote, The one and only rbg. Because she said it best, you know, we’ve got to be leaders right now believe in a way so that others can follow you. And I think that means taking responsibility for not only our cells and getting out to vote, but also our communities. And then finally, you know, I think that there is so much that can be accomplished, and the relationships that we have with other people, right. So really sharing your story with folks talking with people that you care about about what’s at stake and not avoiding the difficult conversations is another thing that we can concretely do that will make a difference. So again, I think it’s just this, this is a moment for us to make sure that we’re not kind of seeping into fear and going into a paralysis where we’re not able to do but instead, you know, moving in and taking action in any and all the ways that we can.
Maggie Germano 11:45
Yeah, that’s really inspiring. And I think we’re lucky right now that there are a lot of options, whether it is making your own voting plan, sharing your voting plan with loved ones, and having them tell you there’s bringing them with you to vote. But there’s also lots of options for getting engaged in campaigns, too. I know I’m doing text banking, with races, and I’ve seen other people doing stuff like that, like even if you’re afraid to get on the phone, do phone banking, or go door to door, especially with COVID. There’s, it’s it’s really nice to see how many options there are out there where people can get more engaged.
Kelley Robinson 12:23
Oh, it’s great. And like you said, there’s so many virtual options, you know, I’ve been organizing for a long time, and we talk about door to door canvassing is the best way because you’re building strong relationships with folks to actually turn out the vote. Okay, we can’t do that this year. But there are other tactics that we’re able to talk to people at a scale that we’ve never been able to do before through digital organizing. And these textbooks like you, you mentioned, the other tools that I know a lot of folks are using. And if people volunteer with Planned Parenthood, political organizations, you’ll get to experience this, we use a tool called out vote, where you can actually input people in your network, right. And people that are on your your contact list or your that you said that top 10 on sprint, I don’t know if they do that anymore. I don’t have sprint, but you can input people that are on your contact list, right from your cell phone or through your social media apps like Facebook or Twitter. And what it will do is it’ll help you to it’ll create a list for you, that allows you to contact those folks, and reminds you to remind them to get out to vote. And that is a way that we’re actually bringing new people into the process that may not have been in before. So I’m just really excited about the new tools that we have, you know, leaning into this virtual moment that will allow us to be even more impactful and to build longer term, you know, community building work that we’ll need later on.
Maggie Germano 13:39
Yeah, as you were describing that I was thinking about that to where even once Coronavirus is over and we’re you know, able to kind of go door to door and be in groups again safely. I think that the virtual approach will still be really effective, because there are just so many people that could be reached that way that maybe are not as reachable in person or on the phone. Exactly, exactly.
Kelley Robinson 14:01
And I always remember, you know, the election is a very important moment in time, right? We have to do everything that we can put it on the line to ensure that we’re fighting as hard as we can to win. However, the election is not the end of this fight is just the beginning of a new one. And it’s going to require that we’re all engaged a lot longer term to kind of make sure that we’re fortifying this democracy and fighting for you know, the rights that we all deserve.
Maggie Germano 14:27
Yeah, absolutely. So related to that. I when I initially reached out I had healthcare kind of top of mind, you know, open enrollment is going to be starting again soon. We’re looking, you know, staring down this election and we’re in the middle of a global pandemic. So health care coverage, getting the kind of healthcare support that we need and having that affordability there has been top of mind for a really long time, but it’s very stark this year. So can you talk a little bit about how elections Generally, but also this election in particular kind of impact our health care access
Kelley Robinson 15:07
slowly. And this year, I think you’re looking at two candidates from the presidential level on stage one that has no plan around the Affordable Care Act or making sure that folks have access to health care in this country. And another one that does in in Joe Biden, right. And I think that people really do need to need to be taking a critical look not only at the things that they’re saying from the stage, but looking at their websites and the policies, they’ve written down about what they would do to implement health care policies that will really ensure that folks have access, no matter how much money you have or where you live, I think that that is key critical and important. And when I say healthcare access, yes, I mean, the comprehensive range of health care access, including access to things like abortion care. The other thing that I think people really should have in mind is when we’re thinking about health care access, is the supreme court. And I’m bringing that up, because actually, there’s a case that will be heard by the Supreme Court just after election day, that is aimed towards undermining or gutting the ACA, the Affordable Care Act. And the problem here is that we’ve seen over the last few years, that the Republicans, the ones that are moving forward this that have advocated for this, this case to be heard by the Supreme Court, they don’t have any sort of plan behind it about what to do next. So I’m only naming that because I think it’s a really important thing, because when we’re thinking about what’s at stake, it is the legislative side of ensuring that folks have access to health care through sustaining and I’m gonna say upgrading something like the Affordable Care Act, which really, you know, when we think about it, because I know we say the Affordable Care Act a lot, I always want to point out that it was through the Affordable Care Act, that people got protection for pre existing conditions that they would still have to be covered by insurance policies. And of course, pre existing conditions are things like being pregnant or surviving domestic violence, right? When we talk about the ACA, we’re talking about Medicaid expansion, so that low income folks so that folks of color have equitable access in this country, we’re talking about mandated cover coverage for pregnancy, we’re talking about guaranteed coverage for birth control, right, we’re talking about things that are fundamental to being able to live a healthy life and to be able to make decisions about what you want to do in other aspects of your life. So I’m saying that because we got to think about it from a legislative standpoint, but also from the perspective of whomever is elected, will get to make decisions about the courts that ultimately impact our access to health care.
Maggie Germano 17:32
Right. And then I’m sure you’re acutely aware of that, as there are cases going up, it almost feels like every day, at this point, almost particularly against Planned Parenthood and the work that you’re doing there. So again, thank you for fighting that every day. Um, and so yeah, I mean, everything you were describing, like every person in the United States probably has some sort of pre existing condition, or it could be pointed to as a pre existing condition by an insurance company who did not want to cover you because they want to make money. That’s what they exist for. They’re not here out of the goodness of their hearts to help us get the health care we need. And so yeah, having those laws in place and regulations in place to actually say no, you have to give people the coverage that they actually need. That’s the whole point of this, that makes an enormous difference in people’s lives and just livelihood and their ability to continue getting by.
Kelley Robinson 18:33
Absolutely, we’ve already seen it, right. And I even think about the pocketbook savings of something like the Affordable Care Act guaranteeing birth control without a copay, that’s hundreds of dollars that people are saving each month. I mean, this, this is a real impact in our day to day lives, that we’ve got to make sure that we are, you know, getting out to vote to protect, but then also advocating and telling our stories about what the impact is.
Maggie Germano 18:56
Yeah, cuz I think it can be hard, especially for folks out there who may be maybe they’re undecided. Or maybe they’ve been hearing a lot of information from different sources that can be kind of confusing, or make them feel like, this is not as serious as it actually is. And so maybe, yeah, like telling your stories, informing these people of like, this is an experience that I had, and because of the Affordable Care Act, I’m healthy today, or I had these options and or I got to where I am today, versus what it might have been like before, because if they’re hearing real stories from people they care about maybe that will switch something for them in a way that that more abstract way of talking about it hasn’t.
Kelley Robinson 19:40
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then just bring it back to this coven moment, I think is also very, very important. Right like are we would have been able to recover more quickly from this crisis. If we had a strong healthcare system and a strong system in place from the beginning. And the thing I’m always reminding folks is that You know, COVID didn’t create all the crisis’s that we’re dealing with. It didn’t create racism, it didn’t create, you know, the gaps in our healthcare infrastructure, what it did was amplify them and exacerbate them to the point where we’re seeing the impact now, where brown folks and black folks are disproportionately impact and dying at higher rates than our white counterparts. I mean, this is not these are individual stories, but this is also the story of our nation, and it, quite frankly, we can, and we should be better than this, right. And I think that’s the thing that kind of gets at my soul is that when I talk to people across the country, I know that we as a nation are better than the circumstance that we find ourselves in. And we can do better for one another. And I think that’s what’s really at stake here. And it starts with caring for each other enough to ensure that we’ve got the health care that folks need.
Maggie Germano 20:47
Yeah, I totally agree. I saw someone share, I think it was on Twitter recently about how like, the conversations around taxes recently, the conversations around health care and the election, that all of these things are actually fixable, these are things that have been created, they don’t just exist in a vacuum, they were created, and they can be changed. And we actually do have the power to change them, we just need to take the right steps to do that.
Kelley Robinson 21:13
Yes, that’s something somebody should give a hand clap at home for because we have the power to change it, you know, it’s just a matter of getting the people in office that can make those changes, and then continuing to tell our stories so that they are encouraged to do so.
Maggie Germano 21:29
Yeah, I totally agree. And so you started touching earlier on the things that people can do to get involved this year, and to kind of, you know, get out the vote. But are there other things that individuals can kind of be doing right now, I know, a lot of times on this podcast I talked about, like the structural change that needs to happen. But that can feel a little too distant for a lot of people. So what are some more of those individual actions that folks can take right now?
Kelley Robinson 21:58
Absolutely. And I got to come back to voting, right? Because I think, you know, number one, make sure that you’re registered to vote, make a plan to vote and go to vote as soon as you can, right? In many states, folks are already voting. So I think that’s a really important thing. commit to taking others with you. If you want to know how to kind of, you know, expand beyond your immediate network and be a volunteer folks and visit Planned Parenthood action.org to get involved in this in political and advocacy efforts this year. And also just to find information about voting, if they’re curious about, you know, polling information and things like that. The other thing that I do think that folks should be thinking about is the supreme court fight that we’re in, right, we know that we lost Ruth Bader Ginsburg, just a little bit over a week ago, and President Trump has already moved to replace her with Amy Coney Barrett. And I think that folks need to know that really, access to health care is at stake with the Supreme Court pick, and you know, even bigger than that, they’re these kind of undergirds of democracy there at stake. As they as you know, the the majority rushes through a process that just shouldn’t be rushed, right, like I can rush to do my hair in the morning, maybe. But rushing someone through to a lifetime appointment in the Supreme Court is unfathomable at a moment like this, where they also have failed to pass significant the second bill related to coronavirus relief, I think that that’s a really important kind of contrast. So this is a fight that folks can get involved in now. I mean, you know, unfortunately, this nominee has also has openly criticized the Affordable Care Act. And we know that there’s a case coming before the courts just after the election. This is someone that really, you know, has challenging views related to some of the issues that my organization cares about more that could threaten, you know, our access to abortion care in this country, as we know that there are 17 cases that have a likely path of the Supreme Court over the next year or so. So this is a very important moment for folks, for folks to speak up and take action. And if folks want to join that effort in that fight, they can text rise to 22422. That’s rise like r-i-s-e to 22422. To get involved.
Maggie Germano 24:09
Great. And I will share all of that in the show notes too. So folks can get involved. I know. I mean, at least my timeline everywhere everyone is sharing, you know about the Supreme Court nominee and what she stands for and what she doesn’t stand for and how scary that is, and the way that things could really be rolled back over the next several decades.
Kelley Robinson 24:30
And these are like when we talk about abortion access. These are issues that the majority of Americans support 77% of Americans do not want to see Roe v Wade overturn, that cuts across political party that cuts across religious beliefs that cuts across everything. And I think to pose this as a divisive issue is terrible because it’s actually one that the majority of Americans support, and it’s something that’s going to be at risk with a Supreme Court nominee.
Maggie Germano 24:56
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I agree with you and you know, Getting involved and contacting your senators and making sure everybody knows how you feel about rushing this nominee through and how important it is to not only take their time, but also wait until after the election after the inauguration.
Kelley Robinson 25:16
Absolutely, let the people decide we’re already voting.
Maggie Germano 25:19
Exactly. Yeah, like you said, people are already doing early voting, people are doing mallen voting, I know that I requested my melon ballot. So that’s going to be going in before election day. And people have been doing that for weeks. So it’s not like, you know, we’re just kind of sitting around waiting for the election. It’s already happening.
Kelley Robinson 25:38
Maggie Germano 25:41
Great. Well, so is there anything else that we haven’t kind of touched on both around reproductive access health care access, generally? And then, you know, the election overall, that you want to make sure that folks understand and kind of takeaway from this conversation?
Kelley Robinson 25:57
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think I think the biggest thing kind of comes back to a point that you made earlier that this is not a moment to be afraid, I think this is a moment for us to lean in, and know that we’ve got some important decisions to make to ensure that we achieve change that makes lives for people like you and people like me better at the end of the day, right? It’s true that we’re in a crisis right now, when you think about you know, the pandemic when you think about systemic racism. But I think the thing that kind of keeps me whole is that reminder that with crisis, comes reckoning, and with reckoning, generally comes transformation. And there are some real opportunities to transform on the other side of this, but requires that, you know, we get out to vote, we tell our stories, and we contact our electeds about about the things that matter.
Maggie Germano 26:39
Yeah, and I love hearing you say that, because it really does give me kind of more hope around the potential silver lining of this crisis, and of everything we’ve been seeing going on this year, and how Stark all of the problems have become for us that maybe a lot of people have been able to ignore, plenty of people have not been able to ignore, but plenty of people were, that can’t now it’s all very much to the forefront. And so yeah, taking this opportunity to actually start changing those things for the better and seeing this as a opportunity to just make life better for more. And most Americans.
Kelley Robinson 27:18
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I will just say that I think that more people are getting engaged now because they understand what’s at stake. You know, I’ll just tell you quickly I was, I was talking to my my dad, who he has worked in the grocery in grocery stores. For the last like 30 years. He’s always worked overnights, and when I was a kid, he did it because he wanted to give me like a stay at home dad experience of sorts. And, and I was talking to him at the beginning of the COVID crisis. And he said, Hey, you know, baby girl, they’re calling me essential at work. And I just thought that was so interesting, because his whole demeanor changed with understanding that he was essential. And with that, it was that his work wasn’t only essential for me, you know, to make sure I had a good life growing up, but also to the community that were a part of. And I think that’s such a powerful thing, right? When working people realize that they’re essential, where young people are kind of coming into the the understanding that age doesn’t dictate agency. These are really powerful things. I mean, women right, starting to act and vote like the majority that we are, this is a really powerful moment right now. And I’m really kind of proud to be a part of the community that that is taking action right now. So I just want folks to know that there is hope here, we will win these fights. It’s just a matter of wanting to do to make sure make sure it’s so yeah.
Maggie Germano 28:37
Oh, thank you. That is really helpful takeaway, too. For everybody, I’m sure. And is there anything you want to promote to listeners that is going on with Planned Parenthood right now?
Kelley Robinson 28:48
PlannedParenthoodaction.org. Come check us out, all of our events are there. We’re also gearing up for a big national day of action in partnership with women’s organizations and gender justice groups on October 17. So keep an eye keep an eye on our website and more information will come out about that soon.
Maggie Germano 29:06
Wonderful. And again, I will link to all that information so people can have easy access to it and get involved in any way they can. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to chat about this today. I think this is an incredibly important topic and it’s an important time and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and and your time.
Kelley Robinson 29:25
Thank you, Maggie, and thanks all your listeners. I appreciate it.
Maggie Germano 29:31
Thank you so much for listening to the money circle podcast this week. If you like the conversations we’re having here and you’d like to go even deeper. Join the new money circle community. In this safe intersectional feminist space. We will break down money shame and build community and safety for everyone so that you can find the support you need to gain control over your finances. Visit Maggiegermano.com/moneycircle to learn more. And to join. If you’d like to get more connected with me, subscribe to my weekly newsletter at Maggiegermano.com/ubscribe to learn more about my financial coaching services, my speaking and workshop offerings or just to read my blog visit Maggiegermano.com. You can also follow me on instagram and twitter @MaggieGermano. I look forward to hearing from you. Bye bye.
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